OP Stack + Interoperability Questions

[westonnelson]

Hi, I've deployed an OP Stack locally from the CLI following the documentation steps and then also one using Caldera... was great to see CCIP chat from Chainlink in the Discord today as interoperability seems to me something absolutely critical in the coming years...but was wondering if anyone can shed some light on the interop specifics as it relates to OP Stack L2s or where I can find exact specifications in order to know - what will and wont be functionally possible - ie I'm very familiar with LayerZero functionality and have deployed these contracts and they work extremely well, but AFAIK it's not really possible to use CCIP, LayerZero or any other sort of interoperability solution along with an additional OP interop solution....there needs to be just one... (or if trying to put together a solution, it would be very cumbersome and inefficient).

So wondering as the Superchain vision unfolds, also there is the zkEVM layer from Polygons CDK, and other similar solutions popping up, it is appearing different chains will be a bit isolated to me...how is the OP Stack / Superchain planning to support interoperability is what I'm wondering and would like to research more.

Is anyone able to shed some light on this or share some resources here? Thanks!

Weston

[opfocus]

https://docs.optimism.io/stack/explainer#synchronous-cross-chain-transactions
Some are mentioned here, which may not answer your questions. They are just for sharing.

[westonnelson]

Thanks for the info. I've reviewed it quite thoroughly...but looks like some new stuff was added recently.

I saw this: With the combination of low latency L2 to L2 message passing as well as shared sequencing, it is possible to perform complex transactions such as cross-chain flash loans.

I wonder if a proprietary technology could be built for the OP Stack that serves in function similar to CCIP or LayerZero... with the way they complete cross chain messaging. There doesn't seem to be much information anywhere in Optimism on LayerZero for instance, and why it's such a better solution for message passing across chains: both arbitrary messaging and token sending. Cheers 🙌

[opfocus]

I guess this is a topic open for discussion rather than a burning question. Therefore I suggest you adjust its category to general-discussion

[opfocus]

Sorry I didn't describe it clearly. You can edit the category directly on this page without selecting an answer.

[opfocus]

I only have a very superficial understanding of LayerZero, and I think LayerZero is not completely on-chain. I think the interoperability mentioned by op-stack is first on-chain, and then whether it is atomic. I'm not sure, I hope more people can express their opinions

[westonnelson]

Good idea - done.

---

Would be great to hear from anyone else involved in working on this. I think the bridging/cross-chain messaging aspect is one of the single most critical components of getting the Superchain vision into reality, so definitely would like to see some more discussion or thoughts on what the plans are in regards to this as the CCIP demo today was the first I have actually heard of it on Optimism and though it was a good demonstration, also felt like perhaps there isn't a clear path in place for how the OP Stack plans to enable cross-chain or interOP Chain messaging.

I've deployed and used LayerZero for months now without the slightest of issues and they are the most secure, the lowest cost, and the fastest as well in my experience.

Reference For Others

LayerZero is an omnichain interoperability protocol designed for lightweight message passing across chains. LayerZero provides authentic and guaranteed message delivery with configurable trustlessness.

Basically there is a Relayer and an Oracle and then you set your contracts on each chain that only accept messages from each other.

Also important to note that LZ is optimized to with future proof technology - so it has the ability to add new messaging libraries.

Docs: https://layerzero.gitbook.io/docs/

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[westonnelson]

Sorry I didn't describe it clearly. You can edit the category directly on this page without selecting an answer.

No worries! I see that now - on mobile it doesn't appear to allow this but on desktop I saw the ability to adjust the category and so did this now.

[sbvegan]

Hey @westonnelson, I've raised this question internally and I'll see if folks who are working on L2 interop can weigh in.

[westonnelson]

Awesome, thanks - looking forward to it. Feels like a very critical but perhaps slightly overlooked piece of the Superchain vision right now.

My thoughts and where I see a bit of a concern is with big L2s - say a Polygon CDK for example, having their interop solution - but in reality will this actually be bringing more fragmentation? More siloes if you will? Thanks again!

[annieke]

Hi @westonnelson ! Great questions. The answer to OP Stack native interoperability - we're starting to build this out into the stack, and will have some public updates coming soon. I'll aim to get your questions here answered in whatever we share (atomicity, onchain vs offchain are both great Qs to ask). If you have more questions, please keep posting them!

Now questions from me: are you looking to build a project with interoperability? We'd love to hear your idea and have you test out our prototype!

[westonnelson]

Exciting!!! Thanks for the update then I will look forward to learning more.

As for onchain / offchain ... I presume most devs would prefer onchain but being that LayerZero just moved from Chainlink to Google as their default Oracle I have to imagine the tradeoffs lean heavily towards offchain due to cost?

And to answer your question: yes! Actually have already built one and still working on it and am now looking for the next place to keep building/evolving it :)

I think NFTs have such tremendous potential on Layer2, and with this new wave of users entering the ecosystem it seems like there is the opportunity to build an L2 NFT Chain, but I then realized the interop implications which is what led me here! It could be simple enough to go the LayerZero route, but I feel for instance, having a dedicated crosschain messaging for say the OP Stack in particular would be highly useful and efficient for any dev building any OP Stack chain... I'm quite familiar with the LayerZero contracts and how they work so I'd be happy to contribute in any way if I could as well!

And specifically for the project right now, we are mostly just feeling a bit of a time crunch in terms of making a decision for the project (in large part to get ahead of other projects doing similar - but still not fully L2 chains with interoperability for NFTs - and I think providing a full interop solution would be a great utility for getting NFTs moved from Mainnet to L2s such as Optimism. Cheers!

[Chomtana]

Hi @annieke I am interested in looking into the OP Stack native interoperability prototype. I am developing Opti.domains and many more including an OP stack chain.

[sbvegan]

Hey @Chomtana, annie is out of office currently, but she should be able to loop you in when she's back.

[westonnelson]

Hi @annieke just wanted to check in on this to see if you had any updates. I am working away at and would love to get something launched by year end ideally.

I've sort of engineered a solution on my own that I believe could actually work quite well, but it's using the Omnichain approach, and wondering if there is anyone else actively building/developing in this rather niche space to get in touch with.

Do you remember by chance who it was that made the contract that allowed an NFT to be mirrored from OP to Mainnet so people could use it as their PFP on Twitter? This is the direction I think - at least for an NFT Chain - that interop needs to follow.

Which is a sort of mirrored approach to getting trading activity catalyzed on L2, using L1 marketplaces, through specialized contract implementations. Then expanding from their as an L2 NFT Chain could make a lot more practical sense once people see the cost savings from using an OP Stack vs on Mainnet.

Thank you!

[annieke]

Just sent you a Notion doc invite to the protonmail address on your GitHub profile! There are some timelines and implementation specs for the solution we're prototyping, but the timeline might be slower than your planned launch.

If it works though, send me feedback at [email protected] ? We'll have a local prototype of this early 2024

[westonnelson]

Awesome, confirm received email!

I'll review it first thing in the morning and get back to you as soon as I can.

Thanks so much - on brief glance this is super exciting stuff! I think the Stack/CDK/Orbit that really nails interop will have such a competitive moat IMO because it's like a enabling a floodgate for bringing new users onboard. I'll send you feedback at your email provided as well!

Thanks so much! 🙏

[173946]

Awesome !!!

[tec05]

Hello @annieke!

I wanted to find out if there was more information that could be shared about sending messages between the L2s on the Superchain?

Also, is it possible to get access to the Notion site mentioned above?

I am the lead developer of Archly and would be interested in expanding our Rainbow Road to provide connectivity to all L2s on the Superchain as well as other chains.

Thanks!

Here is more information about the Rainbow Road and our vision:

https://archlyfi.medium.com/archly-integrates-chainlink-ccip-to-bring-automation-and-price-feeds-cross-chain-4a47917bc0a9

https://archlyfi.medium.com/the-rainbow-way-e41ee9b7b06d